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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Game Discussions (Title-specific)   » Jane's WWII Fighters   » Plane pulls left with engine on...

   
Author Topic: Plane pulls left with engine on...
Tolwyn
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Member # 1284

posted 06-03-2000 12:41 PM     Profile for Tolwyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, again...

My joystick is completely calibrated from Control Panel but here's my problem:

My plane ALWAYS pulls to the left. As soon as I turn engine off, it stops. Is this because I have realistic flight modelling crancked up? Is that normal "torque?"

I'm cool with that! I just want to make sure that it's not a dead zone issue, or a problem with the game and my joystick.


Posts: 360 | From: WA, United States | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Whizkid
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Member # 993

posted 06-03-2000 01:08 PM     Profile for Whizkid     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
S! Tolwyn. Sounds like perfectly normal torque,to me. Try flying the P38 and see if it goes away,as the two engines should cancel out the torque. Im no whiz kid really ,so maybe someone has a better idea.
Posts: 269 | From: CitrusHts,Ca.,USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Murph
unregistered

posted 06-03-2000 04:33 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
All left turning tendencies are modelled in ww2f.You'll also notice it will pull left in a climb,due to "P force".Try doing what Whiz Kid suggests,You should be able to fly the P-38 "hands off" once you get your trim and airspeed in balance.Same with the ME262.


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calvinman
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Member # 1218

posted 06-03-2000 06:33 PM     Profile for calvinman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think you may find the P-38 also torques, I know the nose swings back and forth when the throttle is chopped. I think I read that the same FM was used for all aircraft, and just altered to reflect the characteristics of each plane. The torque may still be present in the P-38.
Posts: 220 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Judge
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Member # 1634

posted 06-03-2000 08:39 PM     Profile for Judge     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We must be playing different games then calvinman. I just checked and the P-38 does not demonstrate any torque effects. When the throttle is firewalled and then chopped and vice versa, the plane surges forward but the nose does not swing left and right.

As for the planes all using the same flight model, they may all use the same underlying physical principles but their coefficients of flight are very different. Have a look at the FLT files in the ww2.sqs archive.

S.


Posts: 440 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tolwyn
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Member # 1284

posted 06-04-2000 03:35 PM     Profile for Tolwyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm just glad that it IS a Flight Model affect and not something wrong with my Joystick.

I had assumed that it was torque, and I'm totally happy with that effect. Just needed reassuring that it was an in-game realism feature and not something wrong with joystick.


Posts: 360 | From: WA, United States | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Harm
unregistered

posted 06-05-2000 04:31 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The P-38 had no torque effect because its right engine turned "backwards" (clockwise viewed from the front) thus countering the effects of propeler torque. Provided both engines are running!
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Shogun
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Member # 3598

posted 06-05-2000 07:45 PM     Profile for Shogun   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think the basic elements of the FM are there, they just need to be tweaked a bit for the specific planes. How many other sims out there model torque effects? WW2F has one of the most fluid FM's. It doesn't feel like a balancing act or canned like some of the other 3 degs of freedom models out there a la CFS, MSFS, WB, AW, to name a few.

On ace setting those high AOA stalls are deadly, but recoverable, can actually spin a bit, but it could definitely use more spin modelling though.

The FM damage modelling and damage graphics are IMO bar none. Your spit doesn't perform as well with a shot up aileron or flap, but if you're lucky you can still stay in the fight and down that pesky 109. Missing flight surfaces or becoming a flaming torch is a different story, just as in real life..

Hopefully we can get those ace Focke-Wulf pilots tuned down a bit. Didn't think they had laser targeting for a 1200 ft. range snap shot in WW2. Usually I can out maneouver them in a spit or p51 if I see them first..but they seem a little too accurate, particularly compared with trying to fly that plane.

The FW kind of reminds me of a F-16 where the FM is inherently unstable in order to stretch the flight envelope. Unfortunately in Jane's, the pilot is the computer flight control system and constant attention is needed to keep it stable. That thing has a very small flight envelope, easy to stall and spin, but it's not suprising that it can out-perform any other plane in WW2F with a capable pilot and take those crazy snap shots and change it's nose position on a dime. Don't know if this is the case with the real plane but wouldn't be suprised with those short stubby wings and large flight control surfaces.

So all in all, I just think minor changes are needed in the flight modelling such as more spin characteristics, but each plane is already unique in it's FM. Whether they're accurate, it can only be verified by comparing them to the actual numbers. I guess we have a chance now to do that and modify the FM's. It can only get better.

I'd personally like to see the addition of X-wind effects, but there's most likely no hook in the code for that.


-SHOGUN

[This message has been edited by Shogun (edited 06-05-2000).]


Posts: 129 | From: Martinez,CA,USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
calvinman
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Member # 1218

posted 06-06-2000 12:53 AM     Profile for calvinman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It must be my joystick then Judge, got an X-36, there must be some cross talk to the rudder when I chop the throttle.
Posts: 220 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Judge
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Member # 1634

posted 06-06-2000 01:35 AM     Profile for Judge     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It might be, but I think we should get some more feedback from other people first. There may be something going on here that we're not aware of.

If you're reading this thread, can you try taking the P-38 up for a spin sometime, with torque effects enabled and flight model at 5/Wicked. Then in straight and level flight, firewall the throttle, leave it on full until the plane seems to be at max speed and then chop the throttle back to idle. Does the nose of the plane sway left and right when you do so, or does the nose surge the way it does in a car when you gun the accelerator?

Thanks for the feedback

S.


Posts: 440 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
calvinman
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Member # 1218

posted 06-06-2000 04:35 AM     Profile for calvinman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Roger that Judge, at work right now, will try it soon as I sleep off this 12 hour night shift.
Posts: 220 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Harm
unregistered

posted 06-06-2000 06:55 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The flight models only have a few problems, one is the stall and spin characteristics. The other is the rate energy is bled off. The real P-51 for example is a great flier, but is very dangerous for the pilot with poor flying skills. The P-51, if flown to slow has a vicious snap and spin characteristic. Even three pointing a P-51 is a no-no! All of the planes in the sim float to easy. On all of them you can chop the throttle a mile from the runway and a few thousand feet of altitude and glide in! I even shut the engine off and glide in! An engine out in any WWII fighter is a major emergency! You have a huge hunk of steel on the nose that is not turning, it's just making drag, but in the game this makes no difference. The P-47 is like a glider in the game, along with the rest. As far as the P-38 goes, as long as both engines are running you will have no torque effect. It seems way to smooth though, the nose should shake some when you change RPM. I have flown in a prop twin, and the idle and mid range produce a lot of vibration because the RPM of the engines is not perfect. Only at full power does it smooth out.
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calvinman
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Member # 1218

posted 06-06-2000 06:56 PM     Profile for calvinman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well Judge, I gave the P-38 a try, and it is rock solid, no torque what so ever, I have changed my rudder bar on my stick since I noticed this so it must have been a little cross talk.
Posts: 220 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Murph
unregistered

posted 06-07-2000 07:56 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One thing you always want to check is whether the"poll with interrupts enabled"box is unchecked in the control panel rudder pedal setup in windows.Having it checked can really screw up rudder response.
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