Any info you feel like sharing regarding this sim's high and low points would be greatly appreciated. (that is, good points, bad points, and BUGS!)

1) I've got a PIII 500 w/ Diamond Viper 770 32 Ultra, 128 ram... how will it run?

2) Is there a mission editor?

3) Is online gameplay good/reliable?

Lows:
Multiplayer games can be hard to set up. I recomend first reading the documentation, then getting Flexman's Ground Support System from SimHQ.com
There are only 2 bugs that are potential problems... USB joysticks can be hard to get working with EECH and in a few cases near imposible. However there have been many posts on how to fix them, many providing good solutions. The other bug is a rare one where aircraft will not completly land and cause any other aircraft to get stuck in a "holding pattern". This can be fixed by finding the unlanded helo and blowing it up. Please do not let these few bugs scare you off, as I rarely experience the landing problem and my joystick worked with EECH out-of-the-box. I love the game and I recomend it to anyone who wants to have fun flying a combat helo.

On your system specs, you can probaly run it full settings at 1024x768. There is not currently a mission editor. However, us modders are working on that as well as other things. The game is very, very stable. As mentioned there are only 2 bugs, and they are not that frequent.

Great variety of Terrain , cities, deserts, mountains, forest , costal areas, and tons other.

Online play is thru IP numbers, it is on the whole very reliable and very cool.
You fly Dynamic Campaigns on either side for upto hours if needs be. I have a 28k modem and can play the Bigger campaigns flying Blue while the others fly Red side.
There are 3 Squads operational and 2 i see being formed.

Campaigns can be easily edited at the moment and there about 3 ones already , these are not new maps but just rebalancing of forces etc.
New MAPS , textures etc are being research at the moment with support from Razorworks.

i have a P500 Celeron , 64mb Ram, TNT2 ( used to run it on a Voodoo 1 fine ).

Bugs are few and far between and have always been even with the orginal CD version. There are numerous patches but these patches deal mainly with tweaking settings and adding features.

The only real bugs is sometimes the campaign engine can cause some weird behaviour like the hovering helos but usually they run fine and can be dealt with if those probs occur.

quote:

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Originally posted by turner410:
Oh, and a couple quick follow-up questions:

1) I've got a PIII 500 w/ Diamond Viper 770 32 Ultra, 128 ram... how will it run?

2) Is there a mission editor?

3) Is online gameplay good/reliable?

Thanks

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1) I was running on my p3 550, 128 mb, TNT2 M64 at 1024x768 w/ no probs (all settings realistic, cockpit settings on low by personal pref)

2) Not yet.

3) My on-line experience was flying with two others, one in the UK and 1 in Sweden. I am in Orlando, FL USA on a 56k modem.

quote:

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Originally posted by turner410:
Oh, and a couple quick follow-up questions:

1) I've got a PIII 500 w/ Diamond Viper 770 32 Ultra, 128 ram... how will it run?

2) Is there a mission editor?

3) Is online gameplay good/reliable?

Thanks

---

Your system will be fine. I have a PIII 450, 128MB RAM, STB Velocity 4400 (tnt1) and it runs great. The first time I played multiplayer was on a LAN, we played for hours and it was a blast. Modem play is just as stable. I have a 56K modem, but phone lines only support 28.8 and it plays fine.

-Stuttering graphics which when they finally smooth out can leave you smiling at a hillside.
-Buggy audio "This is ground control we're advancing to...." repeat 100 times.
-Take out to many targets (apart from your mission objective) and the campaign engine appears not to update fast enough causing CTD's.
-Stationary ground targets that are welded to the ground.
-AI support from other allied forces seems to not want to fight.
-Enemy Helo's that are dumb (you can take em out with guns on Hard from one foot away before they even think about firing back).
-Invincibility by using Hellfires in LOAL mode from behind hills all the time.. 100% safe.
-The ability to take out fast moving Jets with Air to ground missiles.
-Crappy Stable Hover Hold that isn't that stable.
-Debatable random terrain masking features.
-Lack of any new patches from Razorworks when the game clearly needs it.

• Stuttering graphics which when they finally smooth out can leave you smiling at a hillside.

  
  i have 64mb Ram and i dont find stuttering gfx's , for the 1st minute or so there is but after that it fine. EECH loves a big swap file and free room on the Win98 and EECH partition

• Buggy audio "This is ground control we're advancing to...." repeat 100 times.

  
  Again this is related to the above , i dont have this either , serious on 64mb Ram. Doesnt matter if u got 128mb have a big swap file, 250mb +

• Take out to many targets (apart from your mission objective) and the campaign engine appears not to update fast enough causing CTD's.

  if u have free space on Win98, EECH partition and big Swap file , EECH never crashes again thats after 4 months constant play. EECH is very stable but i know from EEAH and EECH that low room on either on the above can cause a crash.

• Stationary ground targets that are welded to the ground.

  1/2 True , depends on the status of the units, if they stopped , they will stay stopped. If they moving they will stay moving after one of the patches.

• AI support from other allied forces seems to not want to fight.

  Ok that is so not true. Many a time my mission has been completed due to other AI actions, i call for support they come, i move a friendly flights waypoints over an area they attack.
  Just view thru the external views all the action going on that has nothing to do with you, in reality your contribution to the war is small.

• Enemy Helo's that are dumb (you can take em out with guns on Hard from one foot away before they even think about firing back).

  Sometimes true, sometimes not. At times the enemy can be super agressive or half asleep or just normal.

• Invincibility by using Hellfires in LOAL mode from behind hills all the time.. 100% safe.

  Again when u attack a target they forward your position to there boys an a enemy flight will be vectored towards you if they have some spare.
  Some maps like Yemen are much safter due to the terrain ( tons of mountains ) where Taiwan has large parts which are flat and afford no cover at all

• The ability to take out fast moving Jets with Air to ground missiles

  Yep but that might be tweaked under eechmods, which conquerer_cgi is looking at weapon performance at the moment

• Crappy Stable Hover Hold that isn't that stable.

  Stable hover hold is exactly that Stable and works perfect. Normal Hover mode does not work on throttle joysticks as it meant for keyboard collective. There 2 types of Hover and they do both work if used properly.
  You might be referring to altitude hold which is a fair point but most probaly more realistic than a hold that keeps u at a specfic height like your skating on ice

• Debatable random terrain masking features.

  explain ?. Terrain masking is one thing that works great in EECH.
  You might be referring to the point that a contact on your radar stays there after you mask. Thats how it meant to work, the radar will only update on a fresh pass.

• Lack of any new patches from Razorworks when the game clearly needs it.

  6 patches that added new features , where quick to come out and listened to feedback. Also great support from Razorworks for further modification at eechmods.

• apart from all that, it's ok if your into Helo's, cause there's bugger all else out there at the moment
  

EECH is without a doubt the best Helicopter sim there has ever been , even the mighty Lb2. People tend to view past games with rose tinted glasses and put Lb2 back on your computer and give it a good work thru and then tell us what u think of Lb2 ( this from someone who loved Lb2 but relizes it day has gone ).

So Hengist you have got all the bad points which are not really bad points as they either due to system configuration , not using the systems correctly or the way the system is meant to work ( radar returns )

Again i make this point , take Falcon4 ( which again i a big fan ) that cost $11 million , 5 years and look at the buggy peice of crap it was on the CD.

Look at EECH , 9 man crew, they gave u 3 (+3)dynamic campaigns, previous product intergration, 2 flyable helos (+2) , great weather stability all from a 9 strong crew and bugger all money.
Also about patches RW does 1 game at a time that means that for a portion of the year they get nothing , no money , no doughnouts, nought.
So your never going to get perfection but EECH off the CD and esp with the patches is the most stable, bug free game you will ever get and some of these big companies should take a look and see that you dont have to release games which are buggy and take 5 years to do ( EECH took 18 months ).

Razorworks and Esim Steel Beasts are the future of sims and good luck to them , they give us a much better sim and dont put there budgets into flashy intro's , so whether u into EAW , Falcon4 or whatever buy EECH and buy Steel Beasts.

But there already a test campaign out with AI modifciations that evens scares the likes of Gecko6, , Lionpride and wait for this Enforcer and Scorpion. If u can trouble these pilots with the new AI then it pretty hard.

Dave Lomas is the terrain / AI guru from Razorworks already he has given us great info on the way EECH works behind the scenes and he doing this not because he getting paid to do it or he feels obligated but he a nice bloke who wants to support what we doing.
So this is early days but with the work of Blaze/ Enforcer/ Flexman / Bladex / the_conquerer_cgi and others they are producing some interesting discoveries and in effect one thing which we dont have to deal with but the guys at Falcon 4 had to do is deal with bug fixes.

So at EECHMODs we not promising anything but what we will try to do is find as much out about EECH and try to add some cool things to it which not because they where needed but because the game is so cool you just want more of it.
http://www.egroups.com/group/eechmods

quote:

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Originally posted by turner410:
Oh, and a couple quick follow-up questions:

1) I've got a PIII 500 w/ Diamond Viper 770 32 Ultra, 128 ram... how will it run?

Thanks

---

I had the exact same setup and EECH ran fine for me. My PIII was the older BX chipset and everything was fine.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spawnbob:
in response to Hengist

• Stuttering graphics which when they finally smooth out can leave you smiling at a hillside.

  
  i have 64mb Ram and i dont find stuttering gfx's , for the 1st minute or so there is but after that it fine. EECH loves a big swap file and free room on the Win98 and EECH partition

• Buggy audio "This is ground control we're advancing to...." repeat 100 times.

  
  Again this is related to the above , i dont have this either , serious on 64mb Ram. Doesnt matter if u got 128mb have a big swap file, 250mb +

• Take out to many targets (apart from your mission objective) and the campaign engine appears not to update fast enough causing CTD's.

  if u have free space on Win98, EECH partition and big Swap file , EECH never crashes again thats after 4 months constant play. EECH is very stable but i know from EEAH and EECH that low room on either on the above can cause a crash.

• Stationary ground targets that are welded to the ground.

  1/2 True , depends on the status of the units, if they stopped , they will stay stopped. If they moving they will stay moving after one of the patches.

• AI support from other allied forces seems to not want to fight.

  Ok that is so not true. Many a time my mission has been completed due to other AI actions, i call for support they come, i move a friendly flights waypoints over an area they attack.
  Just view thru the external views all the action going on that has nothing to do with you, in reality your contribution to the war is small.

• Enemy Helo's that are dumb (you can take em out with guns on Hard from one foot away before they even think about firing back).

  Sometimes true, sometimes not. At times the enemy can be super agressive or half asleep or just normal.

• Invincibility by using Hellfires in LOAL mode from behind hills all the time.. 100% safe.

  Again when u attack a target they forward your position to there boys an a enemy flight will be vectored towards you if they have some spare.
  Some maps like Yemen are much safter due to the terrain ( tons of mountains ) where Taiwan has large parts which are flat and afford no cover at all

• The ability to take out fast moving Jets with Air to ground missiles

  Yep but that might be tweaked under eechmods, which conquerer_cgi is looking at weapon performance at the moment

• Crappy Stable Hover Hold that isn't that stable.

  Stable hover hold is exactly that Stable and works perfect. Normal Hover mode does not work on throttle joysticks as it meant for keyboard collective. There 2 types of Hover and they do both work if used properly.
  You might be referring to altitude hold which is a fair point but most probaly more realistic than a hold that keeps u at a specfic height like your skating on ice

• Debatable random terrain masking features.

  explain ?. Terrain masking is one thing that works great in EECH.
  You might be referring to the point that a contact on your radar stays there after you mask. Thats how it meant to work, the radar will only update on a fresh pass.

• Lack of any new patches from Razorworks when the game clearly needs it.

  6 patches that added new features , where quick to come out and listened to feedback. Also great support from Razorworks for further modification at eechmods.

• apart from all that, it's ok if your into Helo's, cause there's bugger all else out there at the moment
  

EECH is without a doubt the best Helicopter sim there has ever been , even the mighty Lb2. People tend to view past games with rose tinted glasses and put Lb2 back on your computer and give it a good work thru and then tell us what u think of Lb2 ( this from someone who loved Lb2 but relizes it day has gone ).

So Hengist you have got all the bad points which are not really bad points as they either due to system configuration , not using the systems correctly or the way the system is meant to work ( radar returns )

Again i make this point , take Falcon4 ( which again i a big fan ) that cost $11 million , 5 years and look at the buggy peice of crap it was on the CD.

Look at EECH , 9 man crew, they gave u 3 (+3)dynamic campaigns, previous product intergration, 2 flyable helos (+2) , great weather stability all from a 9 strong crew and bugger all money.
Also about patches RW does 1 game at a time that means that for a portion of the year they get nothing , no money , no doughnouts, nought.
So your never going to get perfection but EECH off the CD and esp with the patches is the most stable, bug free game you will ever get and some of these big companies should take a look and see that you dont have to release games which are buggy and take 5 years to do ( EECH took 18 months ).

Razorworks and Esim Steel Beasts are the future of sims and good luck to them , they give us a much better sim and dont put there budgets into flashy intro's , so whether u into EAW , Falcon4 or whatever buy EECH and buy Steel Beasts.

[This message has been edited by Spawnbob (edited 10-21-2000).]

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Well after 18 years flying computer sims and beta testing a few of them along the way I think I know how to configure a system. Btw I've tried EECH on 4 different systems ranging from P2's to 1Ghz systems with similar results.

I know devoted fans of any particular sim will always dismiss anything remotely negative (it's in their nature ). however after a while you'll learn to be a bit more realistic in your opinions.

It's a great sim, but like all sims, it aint perfect.

I respect your right to be wrong, even when you know I'm correct... lol

EECH runs fine , no crashes, no sound stuttering , if there are any bad points i will note them.
If you look through my previous posts u will see i did massive reports on thing's like the bridges which didnt work properly ( they do now after a patch ).

But if people where to say to me whats your most stable game thats playable on your system EECH would be there over any other sim without question ( well not F19 Stealth Fighter ).

If for 95% of people EECH is stable and runs good then that means without question for that 5% it is something paticular to that system, and it's not like that 95% run the same hardware but that includes a multitude of different configurations.

Also explain what u mean by

• Crappy Stable Hover Hold that isn't that stable.
  
• Debatable random terrain masking features.
  
• AI support from other allied forces seems to not want to fight.
  
• Take out to many targets (apart from your mission objective) and the campaign engine appears not to update fast enough causing CTD's.
  

As from what you said these events just do not occur.
This is not just my opinion ask other people here , in fact Terrain Masking even works down to the building level.
Stable Hover gold is that Stable .

Hover hold is not stable with a Joystick with throttle and is not intended to be ( read the manual ), hover hold is meant for Keyboard collective.

The AI are always up for a fight and just look at the map and see the events rolling in and the log. This is not a statistical war as in Falcon4 but if you look at the unit in the 3D World that has the event you will see it fighting.

2 Many targets = CTD , that possibly could happen due to low disk space on the EECH partition but if you have a modest amount free, i.e 50mb+ then the campaign wont crash.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spawnbob:

Also explain what u mean by

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I would if you'd said please... Man, you crazy young kids just don't have any manners anymore

Hengist.

Hengist's MiG Alley Site. http://www.hengist.co.uk/MiGAlley/
'1950 Korea - The birth of Jet warfare'

if u have free space on Win98, EECH partition and big Swap file ,

On the positive side:

Graphics are quite good. A wide variety of objects in the game.

Never had a CTD yet, although stuttering can be a bit of a problem when starting to play.

Viewing/panning is better than LB2 as far as I'm concerned.

Things that can be improved:

Avionics not as good as LB2. Can't operate radar and FLIR at the same time, for example.
I want the real thing.

AI. Why am I getting CAP and escort missions?
For example, I'm supposed to be escorting a cargo plane in one mission? Let's be reasonable here.

Need more communications. Like F4 which lacks an "intelligent" AWACS and FAC, I should to be told ground control, FAC or whomever where the enemy is if he presents an immediate danger. For example, on an CAP mission, there's enemy helos within my CAP area, but unless I "cheat" by looking at the map, I'd never know they were there unless they came within range of my sensors.

AI flight behavior of wingmen. There's no "kick out" call to give them. They get way too close to me way too often. Very crude attacking/defending tactics. Then again, not too many other sims out there do good job of this anyway.

I've got the US version ( 1.4.1 C I believe ) running on a Cel366@528, V3 3000, and 192 Megs of RAM.

Where can I get the latest mods/patches for EECH? If I ever learn C or C++, I would love to help out improving it, especially with the AI.

Why am I getting CAP and escort missions?

yep some missions are not realistic but how boring would it get if all u did all day is go after tanks.

i have to disagree about crude attacking methods for wingman they find the best position behind terrain, let there weapons free , find another position. They should be in mensa.

Also you do get feedback when ground units are under attack and the radio call refers to the location they are at

quote:

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Originally posted by Spawnbob:
the X Patch pushes out the formation

Why am I getting CAP and escort missions?

yep some missions are not realistic but how boring would it get if all u did all day is go after tanks.

i have to disagree about crude attacking methods for wingman they find the best position behind terrain, let there weapons free , find another position. They should be in mensa.

Also you do get feedback when ground units are under attack and the radio call refers to the location they are at

[This message has been edited by Spawnbob (edited 10-30-2000).]

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Ah, I see a mod exec has just become available. Good work and thanks!

Again, as far as CAP or escort missions go, it all depends on what I'm supposed to escort or defend against. If helicopters, fine, but there is no way in hell I can keep up with a friendly cargo plane on an escort or defend against a Mig unless he's going low and slow.

Wingmen AI is a mixed bag; sometimes good, sometimes not. For instance, on a recent CAP mission, there's an enemy Hokum not more than 10 km away and my wingman continues on with the CAP route after I get shot down. Surely he should go after the Hokum unless he's out of ammo or badly damaged, neither of which was the case.

Not trying to be overly critical, but these are some things that need to be improved upon.

quote:

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Originally posted by the_conquerer_cgi:
Once you get into it and stop playing to find problems, you'll enjoy it. If you have any problems, just post a topic asking for help, that's what we're here for.

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I'm not playing it simply to find problems; they're just there! But IF it's possible to improve upon it, who wouldn't want to make it better?