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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Game Discussions (Title-specific)   » Enemy Engaged: Comanche vs. Hokum   » Highspeed sideways flight

   
Author Topic: Highspeed sideways flight
Screech
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Member # 3105

posted 08-01-2000 06:10 PM     Profile for Screech   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
While watching a demonstration flight of the Comanche on TV it was doing a sideways flight in excess of 60knots while pacing a vehicle on the road. I can't seem to achieve any substantial sideways flight in this sim.
What I'm I doing wrong? Is it modeled in this sim?

Thanks.


Posts: 110 | From: NY | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ozias
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Member # 4579

posted 08-01-2000 07:39 PM     Profile for Ozias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That particular part of the Comanche's flight envelope is 'broken' in EECH.

Posts: 334 | From: London,UK | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
FireFly
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Member # 5496

posted 08-01-2000 08:22 PM     Profile for FireFly   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, I've seen this on the History Channel. After I watched it I logged on the web right then and looked for some Comanche simulation reviews. I discovered that there was a brand new Enemy Engaged sim to be released in US in a few days. Boy, was I excited. Then I downloaded the EECH demo and after playing it for a while I decided to stick with my trusty Longbow 2. The graphics in EECH are spectacular, but I choose reality vs. eye candy. Sideways flight in not modeled and neither is autorotation. To all the EECH fans I have to say 'sorry', but such big gaps in flight modeling put under question the whole sim. I may be wrong, but I think EECH is like an overproduced Hollywood movie, lots of fireworks but little reality (at least some aspects of this game). And, hey, make that Russian guy actually speak Russian, not that fake accent!
Posts: 74 | From: Queens | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Screech
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Member # 3105

posted 08-01-2000 08:58 PM     Profile for Screech   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It is very unfortunate indeed. But in my opinion its the only thing that tarnishes an otherwise fabulous sim. Give it a chance open your mind and I think you'll also see the genius behind EECH.

Plus if your from Queens N.Y we have more in common than chopper sims. You can't be that bad.

Screech


Posts: 110 | From: NY | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Spawnbob
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Member # 1277

posted 08-01-2000 10:18 PM     Profile for Spawnbob   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Firefly yes your right about the autorotations and sideways flight but then again the EECH FM does things that are not in other sims inc LB2.

Basically the way the forces upon the rotor is modelled is on each part of the rotor, someone like Flexman ,Enforcer, Blaze could explain this better. But it's not just one force from the rotor but varies depending on the part of the rotor.

Another cool thing is Air Density modelling , so changes in altitude changes Helo performanace, now usually in Helos sims this isnt as important as you usually stay low. In EECH your flight path may take you over 10000ft mountain ranges so the difference is important.

Also there is big differences between the Handling of the 4 Flyable Helo's

Plus that you have


  • one of the best Dynamic and Immersive Campaigns
  • Varied and Massive Theaters ( Caspian Gold is like 300km*400km or something )
  • Great weather effects, Rain, Thunder , Lighting , Snow
  • Varied Units with outstanding attention to detail,
  • virtually bug free and stable
  • Works as Advertised
  • Great MP action with the ability to fly for either side in ongoing campaigns
  • Clever Wingman ( most of the time )
  • Varied Terrain and Buildings
  • Fantastic , no obessive Attention to Detail
  • Massive and Varied Cities
  • Cool Interface
  • Great virtual cockpits
  • Great Developer Support
  • Other FM features, such as Ground Effect, Retreating Blase Stall, Vortex Rings
  • EEAH Intergration that Works
  • Infantry that scratch their butts ( this is true )


------------------
Enemy Engaged :RAH-66 v Ka-52 Hokum
The Best Helicopter Sim ever, even better than Longbow 2

By Razorworks

Enemyengaged
Combatsim (EECH Forum )
Simhq (Helo Section , Helo Messageboard )
Barryworld's Review 10/10

[This message has been edited by Spawnbob (edited 08-01-2000).]


Posts: 1341 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
FireFly
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Member # 5496

posted 08-02-2000 10:21 AM     Profile for FireFly   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think soldiers scratching their butts have convinced me I will take the game for a spin, it does have more good sides to it. I still think, though, that companies like Electronic Arts, backed by resources of Jane's Info Group are more likely to pay attention to technical details when they set out to make a study sim like LB or F-15. EECH is the first one of the new generation sims and is just a glance into what is coming up later, IMHO. There is little I can judge from the demo, of course, but I am sure that the game's developers will address the flight modeling issues we are talking about sometime later. Another question: is the EECH demo 3d accellerated or is it in software mode? I got a friggin' slideshow even on the lowest-of-the-low settings. Very disturbing. I think my plans to buy a new system are just in time. I am sort of behind everyone else in this. BTW, How do I indent my text in this forum? It is not in the UBB code. Thanks.
Posts: 74 | From: Queens | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
LIONPRIDE
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Member # 3534

posted 08-02-2000 11:54 AM     Profile for LIONPRIDE   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well You can't say this is a perfect sim. There is no sharing of targets between units, as was in LB2. And the sideways flight isn't modeled, as much as some of us have tinkered with the FM.

BUT...THis sim can't be judged as a product that is trying to just give "eye candy". This is the most realistic sim since LB2...and for me...seems to be more stable of a connection than LB2 ever was.

Don't get me wrong, LB2 was great flying against my neighbors, but it lacked stability over distance.

Overall with the great support and sites chalk-ful-of-info ... how could yah go wrong.

Maybe you should just stick to KA-52 and Gunship and play on-line ( MPlayer / Zone )with some 12yr old kid from bangladesh who doesn't know better. OH...or maybe on Janes CombatNet....yeah right!


*

------------------
TO FLY IS HEAVEN, TO HOVER IS DIVINE.


Posts: 331 | From: United States of America | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Spawnbob
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posted 08-02-2000 12:29 PM     Profile for Spawnbob   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
bobRemember the people behind EECH are not exactly new they made DI Apache and Hind so they not newbies trying to make Helo Quake.

Also i think i know why these 2 items where omitted.

Autorotations - the way the campaign works the individual helicopters are less important , the whole side is important. I think autorotations would be nice but would ultimely serve little impact in the course of the campaign.

Side Slip at 70kts ( it is kinda possible at slow speeds ) - I think this would off given the Comanche 2 much of an advantage over the other Helo's and Enemy AI Units. I think this is a gameplay balancing issues to make it more fair.

To indent the texts ( u mean the bullets i guess ) you use the text

{list}
{*} point 1
{*} point 2
{/list}

replace all the {} with Sqaure brackets.

hard to type UBB code so it comes up instead of doing it's function.

I have a P500 Celeron, 3DFX 1 ( yep the 1st) , 64mb Ram and EECH is perfectly playable on my lowly system.

[This message has been edited by Spawnbob (edited 08-02-2000).]


Posts: 1341 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Hollywood
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Member # 4301

posted 08-02-2000 02:45 PM     Profile for Hollywood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
how would sideways flight be achieved if EECH could do it?? is there a lot of rudder involved or is it something more complicated?

------------------
"Hollywood Out"


Posts: 441 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
TKorho
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Member # 3215

posted 08-03-2000 09:07 AM     Profile for TKorho   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Quick sideways flight needs very much sideways bank. Just like forward acceleration takes very deep pitch. It just looks scarier when you do it sideways.

Also if you have cross coupling on, it must be more difficult to do the sideslip. Without it, and with it in real life the bank vs. yawing due to the air stream over the tail plane is controlled with the rudders.

This works ok in EECH.

But up to the max speed it can do it I don't know, I've heard that the pressure on the tail plane is too big in the game. It does slip, but hard to do that very fast. 70 kts, after all, is quite a speed.

------------------
(V)LtCol Ghost - Hornet coder, snowboarder
87th Stray Dogs
[IMG]http://www.87th.org/images/logo-s.gif[/IMG]


Posts: 388 | From: Tampere, Finland | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Leaky
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posted 08-03-2000 05:15 PM     Profile for Leaky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You do not need high negative pitch to attain high forward velocities. The sideways flight is most definitely broken, and considering that there have been several patches released and none of which address the FM, I would guess that this will never get fixed. Add that to the non-existent flight control system, poor tail rotor authority, and inaccurate transnational lift, and you have a pretty bad simulation of the Comanche.

I would much rather have a good FM than infantry that scratch their butts!
*sigh*

L


Posts: 38 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
2ltviper
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Member # 5239

posted 08-03-2000 05:50 PM     Profile for 2ltviper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why is everyone so obsessed with sidewards flight? I will admit that going 60 kits or so great, although I did it for real the other day in an AH-64A to unmask and hit 48kts before I told myself to slow down (I exceeded the book 45KTAS limit). There are few times thta that much speed is needed, and its usually only during a lateral mask/unmasking maneuver. I suspect most of you will unmask vertically anyways. Where I train at, there is no where that lateral unmasking is possible (here in Alabama), we just have trees and some low hills. Although, as overpriced as the Commanche is, it's lateral capability made my flight instructor last year say that if we tried that in our OH-58C we would have crashed going that fast. Did I read that EECH does not have autos? That is a serious oversight. At least you can do both with Longbow 2, although it models only pitot tube IAS, whcih in the real thing the ADS senses TAS "omnidirectional." My AH-64A IP, who is also a maintainance test pilot, told me that the bird would actually do 90kts. It's easier goingto the right than the left.

------------------
"Hellfire Away!"


Posts: 73 | From: Enterprise, AL | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Screech
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Member # 3105

posted 08-03-2000 05:55 PM     Profile for Screech   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Leaky:The same was endlessly said about Falcon 4 by the now devoted.

Patience and faith go a long way sometimes. The excellance demonstrated so far keeps my hopes up and should keep yours


Screech

[This message has been edited by Screech (edited 08-03-2000).]


Posts: 110 | From: NY | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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