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Author Topic: Seriously Folks.......
Force10
unregistered

posted 11-16-1999 11:55 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello All,

Something that has been bothering me for awhile is system requirements on the box. I truly believe there should be a statement on the package that states " Internet connection required to recieve a finished product. " Believe it or not there are people that are not on the internet and are probably gettin the shaft when it comes to buying games, flight sims especially. I personally know of two people that cant pony up the $20 bucks a month and I have downloaded patches for them. Am I way off base here? I realize that these folks are in the extreme minority but they do exist and a couple of lines of text on the requirements might save them (me) some hassle. I cant imagine buying these games and having to live with the original release so I think its a legit requirement. If it is a legit requirement, why is it they dont have to say so on the box? Do you agree? Disagree?
Any response is greatly appreciated.

Force10


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JG2_FireCat!
Member
Member # 225

posted 11-17-1999 04:41 AM     Profile for JG2_FireCat!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Yeah, it has kinda gotten to that point where the internet is an essential aspect for every computer user. Not only for games and other software, but for just about everything computer related.

But if your friends beef is based on shelling out $$$$ for monthly internet connection, well they no longer have anywhere to hide. Even the internet is free now. Three providers that I know of are 1) Netzero, 2) Altavista, and 3)Worldspy.

Salut!

JG2"FireCat!"


Posts: 172 | From: Venice Beach, California | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Force10
unregistered

posted 11-17-1999 09:27 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well hello Cat,

Remember me? I am former JG2Force10. I actually might still be on the roster on the ground crew status. Thanks for the reply. Regardless if the internet is free or not(maybe these free ones dont have the local access coverage as most) it still is a requirement that should be stated on the box IMO.


(FormerJG2) Force10


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JG2_FireCat!
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Member # 225

posted 11-17-1999 01:30 PM     Profile for JG2_FireCat!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Salut, Herr Force10!

When I saw your name, I was wondering if it was you. Good to see you're still around.

So you flying jets now? Maybe we can wing around together sometime once I figure out how to fly this thing. Even though I still don't know what the hell I'm doing, I'm having a blast learning it.

Might be a good idea you have there about advising gamers to all have internet access. Not necessarily for the reasons you stated, but for the shear pleasure of being able to come on to forums like this one and be able to share your experiences with all the other users. It's forums like this that really add significiant value and pleasure to games in thousands of ways. Plus, oftentimes, you even get to talk to the game developers themselves.

As it is, I don't think the internet needs to be promoted any more than it is. And I certainly wouldn't want to force it on anyone. In fact, I confess, I was quite shocked when, in the middle of the installation of this sim the process stops and throws up a full screen advertisement to sign up for America Online!

I'm sitting here in shock thinking WTF? Now what do I do? I took a guess and pressed enter and fortunately that was the right thing to do and the installation continued.

I hope I never see the time when a game won't install unless it detects and accesses an internet connection.

So be very careful what you wish for these days, cause you might end up getting it.

Anyway, good to talk to you again.

Salut!

JG2"FireCat!"


Posts: 172 | From: Venice Beach, California | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG2_FireCat!
Member
Member # 225

posted 11-17-1999 03:40 PM     Profile for JG2_FireCat!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Force10

Oooops, forgot to address your original concern. Actually, I kinda agree with you, in a way, and with reservation.

The dark side of this great "sharing of experiences" with other gamers on the forums is the ruthless "bitching" about every conceivable thing that someone thinks wrong with a game.

For the most part, and especially after being a beta tester, I feel that most all game developers work they're butts off for years to accomplish amazing levels of new gaming experiences. The fact that we have something so incredible as flight simulators of this caliber that we can buy for $40.00 and run on PC's that we hack together ourselves for a mere $1000. to me is astounding.

When I buy a simulator like this, what I'm thinking while playing it is: WOW! this is really great! I look at every innovation and enjoy it to its maximum. I am very thankful for what they have provided, not focused on the flaws or things can be improved.

Although I believe the intentions of the "bitchers" is for the purpose of "improvement", (and I've certainly added my share) I have a bad feeling right now that it is really accomplishing the exact opposite. Instead of overwhelming a developer with criticism and outright threats, I think we should offer praise and support. "Support Your Local Flight Sim Developer" is what I think the cry of the land should be, not "Beat the Hell out of Them" for doing the best they can. Otherwise, they, like Sierra, Pysnogsis, and quite a few others may also say: "OK, fine, that's the way our product is received, forget flight sims, lets make more Quake games instead."

After Sierras decision to stop making flight sims, I'm beginning to realize what the flight sim market is really like. It appears that flight sims is not a very profitable area of game development to be in. It seems in reality we are small market and especially us so-called hard core SOB's who are picky as hell about every little thing.

Anyway, back to topic, I think most sim developers are doing the best they can, producing amazing work under very limiting circumstances. And unlike most any other major project, a flight sim is not done when it's done. In fact, I suspect that when a flight sim goes Gold, the developers only have about one week grace period before they are right back into the heavy flack and working double time trying to resolve all the issues they couldn't find on their own.

This is where the internet really helps. By getting instant feedback from us, they can immediately start resolving issues and testing new fixes with us and pass it on to the customer support department to better and more efficiently resolve the issue when other users call in with problems.

It's not that Internet access is required, it's just far more convenient. Before the Internet, game developers still had the same problems. It's just that they had to use the very expensive, costly, and inefficient method of snail-mailing the patch on a disk. So what that means is that the games "took less chances". In other words, games were released more "stable" but also less exciting. Now that the internet has freed developers of the massive cost of human customer support, and snail mailing of patches, they can be more bold and add the "Realistic" options to flight sims and push the envelope of Flight Modeling, Graphics, Sounds, and every other area of their products. If developers are forced to hold back and only release "Stable" games that are designed to work flawlessly on low-end computers, then progress is slow and boring. Is that what you really want?

Salut!

JG2"FireCat!"


Posts: 172 | From: Venice Beach, California | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mailman
Member
Member # 14

posted 11-17-1999 04:11 PM     Profile for Mailman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So Force10 do your comments only apply to Flanker2 or all PC software products that are released?

Regards

Mailman


Posts: 766 | From: Wellington, New Zealand | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
fodder
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Member # 636

posted 11-17-1999 04:21 PM     Profile for fodder   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Guys, what sim did you used to fly together? Warbirds? EAW?

I'm looking for a EAW Luftwaffe squad now and if you hav any tips I would be very appreciative.

Thanks,
Fodder


Posts: 96 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG2_FireCat!
Member
Member # 225

posted 11-17-1999 06:38 PM     Profile for JG2_FireCat!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Fodder

The squad that I'm currently in and Force10 was in, is Jagdgeschwader II, a virtual Red Baron 3D squadron of approximately 50 pilots.

Although some of our members are also in various EAW and SDOE squads, JG2 doesn't have a presence of it's own in either of those theaters.

I don't know too much about the current state of squadrons in EAW, even though a large percent of EAW Multi-Players also play Red Baron.

The only German EAW squadron I'm familiar with is JG54, Greenhearts. The C/O of that squadron was the Former C/O and founder of Black Haze, a very honorable Red Baron Squadron.

Salut!

JG2"FireCat!"


Posts: 172 | From: Venice Beach, California | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Force10
unregistered

posted 11-17-1999 11:11 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Mailman
Im sorry if I gave the impression that I meant F2 specifically, I was talking about most all games. I think when I said " Believe it or not there are people that are not on the internet and are probably gettin the shaft when it comes to buying games, flight sims especially." you can see what I mean.

Fodder

As Firecat said, we used to fly RB3D. But when I started flying with JG2(in early 98?)it was just plain Red Baron 2. The 3D version came out much later.

Firecat,

I agree with most of what your saying and can see where your coming from. I think alot of gaming companies bring this "bitching" upon themselves. I realize the developers get pressured to push the games out the door early but that same thinking is what brings the people out and gives the impression of a bad sim to the people reading the posts trying to make a descision on buying.
Example: On the read me from Flanker 2 they admit up front about some bugs and say they are working on them. I respect that to a degree. This patch they are working on will probably be released soon (within a month?) so I have to ask what would have happened if they waited that extra 6 weeks and went gold with the patched version what would the first impression of this game have been? Im guessing that if they waited, it would have weeded out about 50% of the negative posts and therefore maybe got more buyers within those first weeks. Im not really talking about hardware issues, Im talking about things that are broken on everyone's system. DI released a statement that pretty much said that Super Hornet was gonna be released as a work in progress and the campaign system will come out later as an add on. This doesnt bother me at all, they are upfront and probably need the cash to continue the project. But then a recent Combatsim article said that the Sim and the add on might be released in the same week? LOL....WTF? Maybe its the difference between the UK and US release dates, I dont know. Whats my point you ask?(God I hope I have one) I guess Im just looking for a little upfront honesty from the gaming companies when comes to relesing games. I dont want to hear " This game is gonna have the greatest this or that" from a company then getting the release and being disapointed. Maybe a statement kinda like what DI did, will hush some of the negativity and not get expectations so high. As for flying together, I would love to, except I returned F2 after 8 or 9 days because my P2 266 is starting to seem like a museum quality chip. I was also disapointed with the performance on my Voodoo3 card. Flights sims that I am currently flying are, EAW,Janes F15 (recently reborn on my drive), and F4( I know.....booooooo). I have currently shelved F4 until the 1.08 patch.

In case people are wondering why I returned F2 and then posted this topic in the F2 forum: I posted my original generic topic in this Forum because I like most of the people here and find their posts intelligent and humurous(most of them anyway) and I wanted an opinion from these people. Although I dont post much(I just hate typing) I have been reading Combatsim boards for a long time and feel familiar with alot of you.<g>

Force10


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Mailman
Member
Member # 14

posted 11-18-1999 05:47 PM     Profile for Mailman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In that case Force10 I agree, it buggers me off big time to see software that is being sold to me that isnt even completed and in some cases just doesnt work at all!

Maybe one day we will see software being released that works properly but I doubt that day will be any time soon.

Regards

Mailman


Posts: 766 | From: Wellington, New Zealand | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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