another view of E-8

(possible answer......the MiG-23 offered the same paradigm, plus the benefits of the new powerplant and swing-wings)

-Tim

Tim's USAF Page - Click Here to Visit!

"Which causes the question......assuming that the operational benefits of the Su-15 paradigm had been realised by the time this prototype was built, why was it not adopted for service?"

You know, just by looking at the airframe I want to ask a question: does it fly as good as it looks? My guess would be that in any case it would make a much better dogfighter than MiG-23 which was chosen over it. But the Russians did not want a dogfighter, they wanted another interceptor with tactical bombing and attack capability (MiG-23BN, ML later evolving to MiG-27). Look at the whole Soviet design philosophy of that era: faster rate of climb, higher ceiling, higher speed, but whoever said anything about turn performance, cockpit visibility or other things necessary for close engagement. Even the history of the development of MiG-21 shows that it became more of an interceptor in versions after MiG-21F! Look at the Soviet AAM designs of this era - BIG, FAST-MOVING, SLOW-TURNING. Clearly made for strategic interception and not for close engagement. Heck, the Soviets did not even have a dogfight missile until R-73/AA-11! And thats true - R-60 (AA-8) is no dogfight missile actually, it was originally envisioned as a close range defense system for the MiG-23, at ranges where MiG-23s main SARH weapon (AA-7) would be too close to use, but the gun would not be close enough to use. It was more of "fill in the gap" weapon. AA-8 has a +/-20 degrees boresight and other shortcomings which means it is not a dogfight-dedicated missile really, although it could be used in one (and to more effect than any preceding Soviet missile). I think R-60M improved version is better suited to dogfights, but still...

Andy Bush

Yep, there is:

http://airbase.uka.ru/

Anyone else notice how much this one looks like the Eurofighter EF2000 ? Change the tail... and presto! A bit of a simplification, but does anyone else see it?

Hell, even agressor groups were set-up to aid ACM techniques for the MiG-23.

AK,

You never seen these!! Shame! We should talk bud. The tri-plane has a very long history that was an important part of the future mentality of Soviets aviation design...i'll tell you about it. Find me online.

Thanks much for the link. Got any more like this...I really enjoy historical military aviation.

Rick 50 Cal

It is an interesting design. Makes me wonder when and why. It seems to be a pronounced departure from typical Soviet ideas from the MiG-21 era.

Z

The picture speaks for itself. One of the web sites above gave a date of 1962 for this prototype.

Given the post-MiG-21 designs (prototype or production), what it is that makes you think otherwise?

It would function almost the same as the MiG-23. In fact there would be some characteristics in this that would be lacking from the MiG-23.

Err...if you are after the finer points, then that will need some explanation (available on request) but essentially it does look the same, and more importantly they where designed with similar goals.
It is best viewed that this is like what the X-31 is to the EAP...one is arguably better than the other...and one particular thing.

Also, I heard somewhere that E-152 - 154 contributed to Chinese J-8 "Finback" design along with a few MiG-23s they purchased from Egypt to study. In any case, J-8 looks a lot similar to E-154:

The original J-8 "Finback"

Oh, I just recalled an interesting real-life story involving the Mig-23. There was an accident in late 1980s where a Russian pilot from a unit stationed in Poland in the Gdansk Bay area (Baltic Sea) ejected shortly after takeoff because of mechanical problems.
The pilotless Mig-23 flew on for hundreds of miles, left Poland, flew over all of northern Germany and entered the Netherlands where it finally crashed on top of a home killing one person.

There were even plans to shoot it down before it crashed into populated area, but due to the fact that you basically won´t find any unpopulated area in Germany and the Netherlands this idea was rejected again.
If I remember correctly one of the German fighter crews (I believe it was an F-4F) even volunteered to try to "tip" the MiG over, read: They wanted to make it bank away towards the North Sea by hitting the MiG´s left wing with their right wing. Due to the risks involved in this maneuver they were not given permission though.

Quite an interesting detail of cold-war history.

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You can run, but... why die tired?

By the way, does anyone know why I can´t edit my messages anymore? Whenever I try to do that it comes up with the dreaded "page not found" error message. It´s been like that for about a week or so now, what´s up with that? Does anyone else have that problem or is it something on my side?

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You can run, but... why die tired?