WOW MajorTom that was close...LOL

My friends father had a hood unload an entire 9mm clip, something like 12 bullets into him. He not only survived, he drop kicked the little knucklehead and got him into a headlock. Would have made a great Real TV type video clip, except it took place behind the cruiser.

The look on that stupid hoods face after he ran out of ammunition must have been classic. Right up until this 240lb Texan screamed, "YOU STUPID SON OF A BITCH, I'LL KILL YOU, YAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!" On the tape the little bastard say something like "oh fu..." just before Mike drope kicked him.

The really sad part about this (for the criminal) was that my friends father was wearing the tactical vest on the outside in plain view.

If any of us where smart we'd get into drug smuggling, or politics, which pretty much amounts to the same thing more often than not.

My father is a bean counter. Certified CPA and CFO for US Aggregates Inc. At 56 years of age he is mulling over retirement at this point in his life, but figures he doesn't have anything else better to do with his time. Cant say I blame him.

But man I gotta tell you, those tactical bullet proof vests really do the trick against pistol rounds. Amazing. They far surpass anything the police have had in protection. Heck they even stop those damn "Black Rhino Cop-Piercing Uranium Tipped Death Bullets" (or at least thats what the local gun club nick named em), you know, the ones the liberals have been all up in arms about.

It's nice to know the boys in blue are getting some decent, working protection from the dumbass element of society. Hopefully, some day, good cops wont die because some asshole just doesn't want a traffic ticket. Makes me sick what cops get killed over these days, $20 stick ups, domestic disputes, man that just aint right.

What we need is some kind of rifle defeating vest. Not even 2 months ago a guy in Texas with an SKS called 911 just so he could pick off cops for some minor grudge he had with em. The bastard killed 3 of them. The first policemen to arrive on the scene got half way out of his car before being blown in half. And the other two policemen where found riddled with bullets, still straped into their seatbelts. The last person to buy it, a DPS trooper, he barely had time to warn the other squad cars behind him.

I'm not trying to judge or label anyone here or say that "mine sh|t smells better blah blah blah", just never understood why those "rampages" are more common in US of A than in any other "civilized" countries.

Cheers,
Scout

Rather distastefull and down right rude site about mass murder, but informative none the less. I actually thought that America had the sickest of the sickies until a friend pointed me to this page last year.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/4077/mor.html

Eitan Mor, and Israeli, Killer, Psyco, and towards the last few seconds of his life... Sniper Target Practice

We have two problems in America, one being not everyone is raised around firearms here and people are careless when they get them. The other problem is that not everyone owns a firearm and even if you do, you probably aren't allowed to carry it on your person.

At the risk of stereotyping, it's the cities and suburbs that contain all the triggering factors for gun violence. Their tough anti gun laws make it difficult for honest people to legaly use their guns for self defence. Our movies and television glorify the gun.

When an uptite suburbonite slob or Hood gets his hands on a gun, any gun, they get that "IM GOD" feeling, because they have guns and they can be assured that very few others have them. These city dwelers know only what they have seen on TV about guns. Now an unstable middle aged man with a gun is one bad thing, an unstable teenager with one is even worse.

You remember when you where a little teenager right? Your ideas and beliefs probably changed on a bi-weekly basis. It's only natural to have a bitter hatred of one person one week and the next be the best of buddies. When you introduce a weak mind with no prior knowledge of firearms to guns, they are going to try and apply those weapons to everyday school life. Just like in the movies.

It's a rather sad situation. It did not used be this way with firearms in America. But I can offer some possible solutions to this delema by following the examples set by your country and switzerland.

-Require extensive military style training for firearms ownership
-lift all regulations on guns for those who complete training
-severely punish those that do try and get guns without training

It's a little known fact that most criminals in the US dont have access to automatic machineguns. Most mass shootings and or crimes have been perpetrated by people with ordinary pistols and hunting rifles. I think people would gladly go through training to get an automatic for self defense.

I think most people would rather be running around with holstered or concealed pistols, pump shotguns for home defence, and Assault Rifles tucked away in their garages.

Would I want to stop a man who wants to walk around with an AK, or Mac-10. Well who am I to determine their need for firearms. It will all even out eventually, some people just seem to like automatics and high powered sniper rifles. They are few and far between.

Out of the dozens of gun owners I've known, not one of them ever had any interest in getting a legal FFL automatic, but one did an automatic conversion to his .22 rifle.

To prevent mass shootings and widespread gun use in the underworld you have to make the costs of a aggression so great for the criminal that he'd be safer off picking pockets. Criminals are cowards. They wont fight when push comes to shove. Brandishing a gun will scare away one more often than not.

44 cops have been killed in the last 10 years by their own automatic weapons. A 3x more likely occurance than with a civilians automatic.

For some reason Hollywood gave us this missconception about these modern day gangsters running around with full auto machinepistols. Interesting enough, most liberals took this hollywood fiction as fact. Then tried to outlaw weapons that weren't even availible to the civilian market.

The only thing that the ban on the sale of automatics to consumers did was to make it harder for legitimate WWII weapons collectors to trade machinepistols and heavy machineguns.

Well, the thing is that if I could get a real assault rifle these days, it would be a M16A2. I'd do just like the swiss, I'd stick it in my garage with ample clips, supplies and bandoleres.

Having used the M-16A1 and A2 in a variety of situations, if long range accuracy isnt a real issue, then Id suggest you go with a Kalashnikov instead. Not only are those AK's almost "Jam proof", but those bullets tumble quickly and really dump their energy into the target rather than sail through it.

Nope we don't get to go home with a LAU launchers... could be cool though j/k

But if you have grenade launcher or telescopic sight attached to your personal AR, you'll surely not disassemble it each week (or almost each week) before you go home. By the way, in US armed forces , what AR is considered "cooler" to have - M16A2 long barrel or the short barrel version?

In IDF almost all combat units are given the short barrel version because of the higher possibility of a close quarter assault over a long range engagement. It is considered the "coolest" to have one with Elbit sight AND grenade launcher

what, no scumbags with Uzi's? This can't be true... I mean all the movies and all hehehe... Seriously though - I'm sure that if you really want to get your hands on MP5 you can do so in states. Illegaly as well.

The closest I can get to these events is shootings by conscripts in Soviet Army. Now, that's sometimes a VERY gloomy and desperate environment for a teen to be in - there are units where relationships between privates are VERY poor. So, a guy would decide to commit suicide but take some of those who he hates to hell with him. But this is the only way anything similar happens in Russia.

No, that's opposite of what I'm trying to say here - we in Israel are pretty much indifferent to firearms. People here are not "obsessed" with guns. Surely in army you are taught to treat your AR like it was your girlfriend - but that's the first rule for every infantryman in any of the world armies. IDF doesn't foster such attitudes - everything's gotta be functional. I mean you're not gonna be hanging out with telescopic sight just because its cool. If you have one - you're probably not a paramedic of your squad.

I don't have gun, nor do I want to have one.
Of all my friends only two have guns - one is a carrier officer and he's obliged to have one (obviously) and the other works part time as security guard. LOL!

Seriously, the last problem we ever had with gangs having automatic weapons was in the roaring 20's. It's a very common misperseption that the modern day gangs and druglords had AK-47's and Mac-10's by the dozens. They never did and never will. At worst they had semi auto rimtech AK-47 lookalikes and Tec-9 semiauto pistols. These gangs where buying $400 semi automatic pistols in gun stores, just like the rest of us. You can lay down an awful lot of fire with a 18 round 9mm clip. Get 3 guys armed with them into a car and you can do some major damage.

Original legislation against AR's (assault rifles) was fueled because of this misperception about gangs using automatics and the fact that they are an easy target because of the way they look. Assault Rifles are basically semiautomatic rifles that either look like military guns, or have military like features on them. They are not military guns, or even true assault rifles.

As for central america, well they dont have our gun laws They have truckloads of REAL AK-47's.

Scout-

I think the most popular take home weapon of the national guard is the regular non carbine M16A2 with scope and grenade launcher. A few of the brainwashed 18 year old action movie fans fancy the carbine with a scope and launcher. And why would you want to put a grenade launcher and scope on a carbine? It is a close quarters breaching rifle, not a swiss army knife of guns.

Sometimes I get the feeling these national guard types not only treat their AR like their girl. But actually treat it better.

Blond_Knight-

In the US we still have to deal with bandits and those that want to kill us and steal our lively hood. Our country still hasn't settled down yet. Eurosocialism has no place here quite yet. Nor will it ever have a place here. We are diverse. With that diversity comes constant change. We'll quite honestly never have 200 year old buildings.

The to groups where the "Gun Owners of America" and "Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership"

I didn't say having carbine with telescopic sight makes much sense... (it does sometimes, though) but Elbit sight is not telescopic. It's a simple electronic gadget that you put on top of the handle bars. Once you bring the rifle to shoulder - you see a small red dot where the point of impact should be. It's not laser, so no batteries and all that sh|t is involved. Pretty nice if you ask me and VERY useful in close quarters breaching.

Hey, I don't mind - we got a whole bunch of terrorists whacked by guys with Uzis here. Will Russian soldier feel bad if he knew he was killed with AK-47 in Chechniya and not M-16?

While serving in UNIFIL South Lebanon '96 I remember, passing through Metulla Gate, seeing the female soldiers with Uzi's and the men with Colt Commandos (or something like that). Is this on purpose or was it just a fluke? Another funny thing was while visiting Underground, a club in Jerusalem as I recall, a couple of Israeli guys and girls in uniform walked in wearing their uniforms and weapons and began dancing in front of the DJ. I suppose the weapon must be carried at all times whatever you do.

What's Colt Commandos? Maybe it was Galil? (an AK-47 derivative)
I was in Underground couple of times before all sorts of thrash started to come there...
Those guys and gals with weapons...seems strange to me.. when I was active duty I did go to some clubs on uniform when on leave but we always left our weapons in some corner of the club with one of our guys watching. How was your experience with Hizbullah? Do you think it's fair that they fire on us from inside their villages so we cannot strike back?

Major Tom,
Yeah, it's like mini-hud, only it's round. Let me dig the web a little and find a picture for you.

No I don't think it's fair. As far as I can remember the weapon I saw looked something like this:

Hoverstorm.

I hate it because its old and heavy design and it's REALLY not a safe weapon to handle. There's a joke in the IDF - Q: "Which method is the most efficient to clear a room full of terrorist?"
A: "You just throw Uzi inside". Hardyharhar

That's pretty much the way it is. The newer models like Mini-Uzi are pretty sleek though.

At least it not heavy (compared to FALs our grunts had to use) it is easy to carry indoors or when you get into a vehicle. It makes a lot of noise when you pull the trigger (to improve morale) and when you remember to aim in the general direction of the enemy he might be impressed by the fireworks.

Just remember to put the safetey on and don't drop it or you might get hurt. One thing i never figured out though. The long distance setting on the visor (500 meters? I don't remeber exactly). Is there anyone alive that can hit something with an Uzi that far away (throwing the Uzi itself doesn't count).

It actually did make an impression on me to carry a weapon. (gun laws here prevent the wide availability of firearms) I was amazed how simple the thing was. One question. Do your girls and REMFs oil the weapon or is that a European thing (rain & rust). It was always a real chore to keep the sand out of an Uzi.

Happy memories... been there, did that, thank God I'm doing something else now.

Uzi's are...well, replaceable. From what a person who frequents the middle east has told me, most of the Egyptian MP's pack vintage surplus UZI's.

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Hey I was a REMF in the KLu (Royal Netherlands Air Force) don't be so negative on the UZI.

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Hehehe, I was a REMF too. Sorry if I gave out a different impression. I haven't had to carry Uzi - I had an M16A2, M16A2 Carbine and Galil Carbine during my 3 year service.

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Do your girls and REMFs oil the weapon or is that a European thing (rain & rust).

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Sure you are required to oil and clean it, however this is not something REMFs usually do

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Happy memories... been there, did that, thank God I'm doing something else now.

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Ditto here. I'm still a reservist though - they can call me whenever they feel like it. It's pretty annoying I must add.

Elbit's is typically a ruby or amber optical frame with a high contrast red dot in the center. You sight the weapon in with this dot.

It makes for very quick targeting as you can achive a good sight picture virtually instantaneously.

Mil-Dot sights are made by many manufacturers. Generally they are very simple and very light weight, have no zoom or optical enhancement qualities.

Basically, you put the weapon to your shoulder, look through the sight glass, and place the red dot on what you want to shoot. There are no emissions from the sight as with a laser. They are non-reflective (ruby or amber treatments on the sight glass) and completely passive.