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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Site-Related Discussions   » Article Feedback   » Training: IL-2: Air-to-Air Gunnery, Part 1 & 2

   
Author Topic: Training: IL-2: Air-to-Air Gunnery, Part 1 & 2
Admin
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posted 02-03-2002 11:23 PM     Profile for Admin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

You’ve seen those gun camera films from WWII…a few short bursts from the guns of the ace and it’s all over. Is it really that easy? Join Len "Viking1" Hjalmarson as he shows you how to master IL-2 Sturmovik's very authentic and very difficult air-to-air gunnery.

Training: IL-2: Air-to-Air Gunnery, Part 1


Posts: 2792 | From: COMBATSIM.COM | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Martillo1
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posted 02-04-2002 02:21 AM     Profile for Martillo1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Great article Len! I'm eagerly waiting for the convergence solution cause 500 m is too much to my thought.

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Martillo


Posts: 51 | From: Madrid, España (Spain) | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Rodger Bilko
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posted 02-04-2002 04:35 AM     Profile for Rodger Bilko   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Excellent piece Len.

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"Thingmies? We don't need no stinking Thingmies"

Bilko's HQ


Posts: 6836 | From: Belfast. Northern Ireland. UK | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
jackDaniels
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Member # 9364

posted 02-04-2002 06:58 AM     Profile for jackDaniels     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Very good...
A nice solution is to come 6 low, pilot unaware, some times a few cannon bullet solve it....or let it smoking..then is a matter of patience, let him bleed till weak and finish the job.

With bomber a few hit in one engine is the best solution. It will usually make it drop his load and breaking away, its not rare to be able to break an entire column that way in a single slow pace. Once the attack is broke, collect the pieces.
The problem with this tactic is that most of the times your smart AI finish them before you...you did the right job and they got the prizes and praises...
And as the game give mission OK only when the bombers are blowing apart....you bet screwed.

Jack Daniels

PS : Once thing that piss me off is the fact that the last bullet in the carcass get the down. Many time have i cripled a plane to death and while falling to his death an AI plane dive hit a few and get the kill


Posts: 56 | From: Brazil | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Purzel
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posted 02-04-2002 07:10 AM     Profile for Purzel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah Jack, but this happens quite often in MP too and is a problem unsolved up to now. In MMPG there is always quite some moaning about "kill-stealers" who blow up all their E to fire a few rounds into the target that already lost one wing. Then the con blows up and the newbie gets the kill...These are usually newbies because most experienced players trend to keep their E and ammo for the incoming buddy of the con

I find the article quite useful adn especially the fact the a dead 6oC position isnt the quite best position to fire from is quite true. I like the MK108 and with it beeing so leathal the few rounds you have left are quite enough. But I have found myself quite often wasting all my ammo on another plane at the dead 6oC pos because especially these rounds arent very accurate. In SP it seems to be the best solution to come from 6oC low. The deflections isnt that big of a prob. But in MP with external view on the correct positioning doesnt wokr most times. Then i tend to come in from 6oC high with high E to try to hit with a low deflection-shot.

Cool article!

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--
Purzel


Posts: 9 | From: Dortmund, NRW, Germany | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Hun Hunter
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posted 02-04-2002 08:45 PM     Profile for Hun Hunter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Good article Len. Now lets talk about 150ft convergence

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"Will someone get this bloody lobster claw out of my back?"-Adolf Galland ME-109F2 April 1941


Posts: 1304 | From: In a water tight cavern under Sydney Harbour Bridge | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Admin
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posted 02-04-2002 09:53 PM     Profile for Admin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

In Part 2, Viking1 considers convergence, using the gunsight to determine range and lead angle, and alignment in the target's plane of motion. You'll also find Viking1's downloadable IL-2 Sturmovik training .trk files in this installment.

Training: IL-2: Air-to-Air Gunnery, Part 2


Posts: 2792 | From: COMBATSIM.COM | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
Oleg Maddox
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Member # 2922

posted 02-05-2002 07:59 AM     Profile for Oleg Maddox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Great thanks COMBATSIM.COM for the award! It is very importnat for me personally.

And Great thanks COMBATSIM.COM for other very importnat for me thing:
Combasim was the first real source, which published info about development of IL-2. Thanks Len for that especially. I still keep that first interview on my hard disk and archive. That was the first time when IL-2 was anounced for worldwide sim world.
(now my English is better )
Oleg Maddox.


Posts: 167 | From: Moscow, Russia | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Viking1
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Member # 5

posted 02-05-2002 11:16 AM     Profile for Viking1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
All it takes is a gift for recognizing greatness

btw, I got IL2 running fine late last night after reinstall of WIN ME. Still don't know what went bad. I had reinstalled drivers, tried different drivers, reinstalled DX 8, tried different memory etc etc. Only reinstall of the OS finally gave me stability again.

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Viking1


Posts: 917 | From: Kelowna BC CANADA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Admin
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posted 02-05-2002 03:41 PM     Profile for Admin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oleg,

My thanks to you and your team for producing such a wonderful simulation. The award was richly deserved.

Yes, Len certainly has an eye for recognizing talent!

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Douglas Helmer
Forum Administrator
publisher@combatsim.com


Posts: 2792 | From: COMBATSIM.COM | Registered: Sep 99  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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Member # 845

posted 02-06-2002 03:52 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Len,

Great series on IL2. The FMB Guide was super and this gunnery set is a must have!!!!!!!!!

Now, this was on Air to Air gunnery, you going to do one devoted to ground attack?

With COOPGen Version 2, folks are going to need it!!!!!!!!

MMMMMMWWWWWWWWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. ."-- Edward R. Murrow

He who sacrifices freedom for security is neither free nor secure" - Ben Franklin

“I believe that freedom of speech should not be so abused by some that it is not exercised by others because of fear of smear. I believe we must not become a nation of mental mutes blindly following demagogues. I believe that we should never become mental mutes with our voices silenced because of fear of criticism of what we might say.” -— U.S. Sen. Margaret Chase Smith, R-Maine, 1950, Declaration of Conscience Speech


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Derek
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posted 02-06-2002 03:28 PM     Profile for Derek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,
Just had to say loved the gunnery articles.

Kind Regards,
Derek.


Posts: 33 | From: Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Viking1
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Member # 5

posted 02-08-2002 02:23 PM     Profile for Viking1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

I probably won't do an A2G series simply because I don't fly enough A2G missions. Maybe one of you.... ?

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Viking1


Posts: 917 | From: Kelowna BC CANADA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Li'lJugs
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Member # 5015

posted 02-11-2002 07:51 PM     Profile for Li'lJugs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, good article! I'm going to d/l the training .traks ASAP.

A good set of A2G articles/.traks by someone would be much appreciated-it ain't as easy as it sounds!

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The last thing every pilot does before leaving the aircraft after making a gear up landing is to put the gear selection lever in the 'down' position.


Posts: 1495 | From: State of Confusion | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Groundpounder
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Member # 9436

posted 02-20-2002 06:49 AM     Profile for Groundpounder     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Viking1 - you missed a vital point in your air gunnery review. You talk about cannon as if it's simply a machine gun with bigger shells (the 4 factors you mentioned are range to target, projectile size, muzzle velocity and rate of fire).

Then you do provide some sums on the momentum (muzzle velocity x weight of fire - i.e. the weight of the projectiles fired in a minute).

But surely the whole point of cannon shells, as opposed to machine gun bullets, is that they EXPLODE on impact. So you've got the figure in the chemical energy of the explosion, and the renewed velocity the various bits of the now fragmented shell have acquired as a result.

i.e. A cannon ain't just a big machine gun!


Posts: 1 | From: Taiwan | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged

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